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[Azarael]

With all honesty Aza, wasn't it that you wanted to ban IllegalName (whom you hate) and he just came and averted the of the ban hammer a few seconds before it would strike? Besides, in RACE, people are derping around at wish (including YOU - in a summoned vehicle, me, Bono, Socio is stacking benders in base etc.) ... glitching is when it's clear one is about to make an objective, otherwise it doesn't ruin the game at all.

Also, I'd ban Coucounet on his b-day so he goes and gets some life on that day

I've had opportunity to ban IllegalName before for spamming that AS was for mentally challenged retards over 3 maps after warning and lifted it after 1 day. Admin coverage is limited enough on AS/Race that if players are going to warn each other whenever they pick up on the presence of an admin, no glitches are ever going to be punished. In this case, I felt that the warning to IllegalName came ONLY because an admin was present and for no other reason. I'm taking that to mean that had IllegalName been glitching and an admin had not been present, the player would have been perfectly happy with that - and if players give me the impression of a "cat's away, mice will play" mentality, I'm not going to take that well and if you actually valued the ideals of the rules, why would you?

The rules say don't glitch. I'm fixing the ones I see now. I don't even agree with this sad "it's ok as long as you don't get the objective" crap either - there's no reason to glitch and part of this problem is that no consistent message is actually set about the rules we've got written down there, adding to how the player probably thought it was OK to warn his friend because some inconsistent admin who applies the rules was around. Play AS and you're an AS player. Play Race and you're a racer. Glitch and you're a cheater.

Summoned vehicles aren't even remotely the same crap as glitching. If you spawn while on Red all that means is that Blue has on average more active players instead of Red. If two admins spawn on separate teams and the server is below maximum playercount, the effect is nothing. If you guys want to stack up benders or spawn when teams would be affected beyond normal +/-1 variation or whatever, fine, but don't constrain my actions based on what you do, because I don't inconvenience anybody in the slightest if they're smart enough to realise that a) I wouldn't be playing anyway b) Red has a numerical advantage more often than not because new players join on Red c) more often than not the extra player doesn't matter given the ability divisions on AS/Race.

[iRobot]

Heavy touch of devil's advocate here, but admins spawning shit during the games really sends out the wrong message. I can completely understand why people inherently take RACE to be a "lesser" game type and therefore not play it seriously and/or by the rules.

For example, team stacking, team switching, spawning Venom/Havoc's, stacking benders, red+blue holding ceasefires etc, are all very prevalent on any RACE map now in some form or another.

If you wish the player base to take the game type, and games themselves seriously, then the administrative staff need to also show a good example and take the games seriously themselves. Not having any active Admins/Mods on there just further compounds the underlying message that nobody cares, so anything goes.

If you do not wish to play the game type / map currently in action, then you should spectate or leave. If Socio (just using you as an example) would go on the BW#1 and spawn a scorpion and just drive around in the corner of the map not interfering, I could guarantee you would all be against it. He could god himself and just do laps of Free Tibet, without harming anyone else, would you guys allow it? Not in a fucking year of Sundays.

..and just to close this one out, no, I'm not fishing for Mod myself, because I don't play on that server myself anymore, or if I do - extremely rarely, for reasons of my own.

[Azarael]

I would be more than happy to allow him to do so were it possible to do so without interfering with the game in progress. It's not possible, however, for numerous reasons - Freon requires all active players to be participating, BW#1 is often full, even driving around in a corner of a map affects the game because it's still a part of the ground play area.

How someone else views the gametype shouldn't affect your own view of the gametype or the rules for it. If I'm trolling around waiting for a new map, I'm still monitoring the game and performing admin functions and because of the aerial nature of abuse vehicles I'm not affecting the game at all. That I choose to spawn does not invalidate any rule nor does it degrade the gametype, because I don't violate the integrity of the gametype by using my privileges as administrator to affect it. If anything, the permission of glitching by certain admins and the existence of OLDZ degrade the Race gametype more than anything else by promoting glitching.

I'd like to mention that I consider maps like Chaos (when it existed), LegoWars and their ilk shit maps, but I don't spawn or abuse on them because it's impossible to do so without adversely affecting the game.

[iRobot]

I would be more than happy to allow him to do so were it possible to do so without interfering with the game in progress

It was mentioned above that glitching to gain access to new areas purely for exploration purposes does not interfere with the game.

I'm still monitoring the game and performing admin functions and because of the aerial nature of abuse vehicles I'm not affecting the game at all.

It does interfere, greatly. I'd see your point if you used the invisible Raptor for example, but you use the Venom, which is highly noticable, and distracts fire from actual players. Not to mention there is reverse damage which you simply cannot argue a case for that it "doesn't interfere". If you're in a flier on the other team, people have every right to shoot you.

There is also situations where a certain member of the admin team is putting themselves in god mode and then flying in to the other teams base. This is interfering greatly and is highly distracting, and at the risk of being mocked, breaks the immersion.

That I choose to spawn does not invalidate any rule nor does it degrade the gametype, because I don't violate the integrity of the gametype by using my privileges as administrator to affect it.

No rule is broken, though I would argue, as would others, that the rules of LDG are very open to varied interpretation. Also as above, flying god mode vehicles into the enemy base really kills the mood. It serves no purpose than to give the message of "Hey, I'm an admin, look at me guys"

If anything, the permission of glitching by certain admins and the existence of OLDZ degrade the Race gametype more than anything else by promoting glitching.

Perhaps, but it gives more benefit by unifying the rules and reducing confusion. Currently the "You can glitch in OLDZ" is retarded in the sense glitching in RACE is bannable, compounded even more so by the fact the maps are the same. Give it a month and all glitches would be commonplace and acceptable strategy, as it became to be in days of old.

I'd like to mention that I consider maps like Chaos (when it existed), LegoWars and their ilk shit maps, but I don't spawn or abuse on them because it's impossible to do so without adversely affecting the game.

Well those aren't RACE maps so you can't really compare.

[Coucounet]

When will my ban be removed ?

[iZumo]

Pure BS Aza, your ability to explain your actions rationally does not hide your intentions (which I honestly don't believe that are "enforcing rules" in this case, given how non-constructively you posted in "Fools day" topic). You're gaming the rules yourself, just from the admin perspective. Should AS players do the same thing, you'd do nothing about it (until they actually glitched). And in post before I was talking about derping around - that is not glitching - compared to derping around with summoned vehicle, both are doing nonstandard things and not intefering either. We define "gaming the rules" because we didn't made then for lawyers - i.e keep some sense behind them and when a person is avoiding that sense, then he's gaming the rules. If I were to game the rules the same you do now

3i) On AS / RACE server it is not allowed to bash either AS or RACE community. All insults to the community ("raisers") as a whole or insulting a player based on which community he belongs (i.e calling someone "raiser", "as filth" etc.) will result in administrative action against you. Stating your opinion in a manner "n00bs NO RAIS ._." / "n00bs NO ASSAULT ._." is fine.

I'm sure I have enough material to permaban damn a lot of people (assuming first time warn / then session / then 3 days etc.) - even on you. And yes, to act that way would certainly be overreacting. Just as you are now. And to get that clear, sure a clear attempt to break rules is punishable as well, but primarily the person that actually attempted to is to be punished.

Also you forgot to lift it, so done that.

[Coucounet]

Thanks dude.

[Azarael]

Thanks for assuming bad faith as usual Izumo. I won't bother to justify myself in future because it apparently just gets dismissed as "rationalisation". I'm mobile at the moment and that is why the ban wasn't lifted so you can shove that thinly veiled allegation of incompetence as well.

I'll make a further response to this when I am at a keyboard.

[Socio]

I never realised "raiser" was an insult, it just an illiteration of the term racer, since we spoke on race = rais so racer = raiser, I mean even one player has "raiser" in his name. Going to be hard to get that one out of my head, it has sunk pretty deep into it, also will need to call "raiser"s something else... maybe "blarfs"? .-.

[Azarael]

So, let's respond to iRobot's post.

It was mentioned above that glitching to gain access to new areas purely for exploration purposes does not interfere with the game.

Difficult to prove anything if you join the game and see someone's glitched. Difficult to know whether a player's going to play for "purely explorative purposes" when they start to glitch. They would still be within the rules if they fired upon other players from a glitched position. If I may draw a comparison with the Venom spawning? It isn't NECESSARY.

It does interfere, greatly. I'd see your point if you used the invisible Raptor for example, but you use the Venom, which is highly noticable, and distracts fire from actual players. Not to mention there is reverse damage which you simply cannot argue a case for that it "doesn't interfere". If you're in a flier on the other team, people have every right to shoot you.

There is also situations where a certain member of the admin team is putting themselves in god mode and then flying in to the other teams base. This is interfering greatly and is highly distracting, and at the risk of being mocked, breaks the immersion.

I spawn ONLY on maps where there are no natural air vehicles. As human beings I expect players to be intelligent enough to realise this. Reverse damage was added simply to stop the annoyance of stupid people continuously shooting you and to make them realise more clearly that the vehicle is not "in play".

Now as for the deliberate showing off and flying needlessly into bases? That's utterly unnecessary.

No rule is broken, though I would argue, as would others, that the rules of LDG are very open to varied interpretation. Also as above, flying god mode vehicles into the enemy base really kills the mood. It serves no purpose than to give the message of "Hey, I'm an admin, look at me guys"

Agreed, but doesn't apply specifically to me.

Perhaps, but it gives more benefit by unifying the rules and reducing confusion. Currently the "You can glitch in OLDZ" is retarded in the sense glitching in RACE is bannable, compounded even more so by the fact the maps are the same. Give it a month and all glitches would be commonplace and acceptable strategy, as it became to be in days of old.

That seems to be what we're moving back to. AS/Glitch rather than AS/Race. I'm utterly frustrated that glitching is being tacitly sanctioned at ANY time.

Well those aren't RACE maps so you can't really compare.

You attempted to make the BW comparison earlier.

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Originally, I added the gunships to the server packages for spawning as something to do when on Race while still maintaining admin coverage. I like flying around - sue me. But now that it appears as though administrators spawning vehicles in RACE will now be held against us by other members of the staff in order to weaken their position, I've taken the liberty of removing the gunships from the server packages. I don't apologise for this ban - if players are going to act as lookouts for other players ONLY when an administrator is present I will never sanction it regardless of whether it's IllegalName or anyone else. Feel free to act as though I allow my personal bias to affect administrative decisions, though, I really appreciate that. I guess updating all the race maps back in the day and trying to fix all the glitches means I'm just trying to ban IllegalName as opposed to having an inbuilt hatred for people who can't even enjoy the gametype without cheating.. I reduced the time of the ban because of the unusual nature of the offense and that's all I felt inclined to do.