Standard weapon balance

[Azarael]

Since we've already tweaked the Minigun, I feel something should be done about the Link Gun and the Bio Rifle.

Some DPS:

Bio primary: 105
Shock primary: 64
Link primary: 150
Link secondary: 75
Minigun primary: 123
Minigun secondary: 82.5
Flak primary: 130
Flak secondary: 115
Rocket primary: 97
Rocket secondary: lololol
Lightning: 43.75
Sniper: 45 <--- hmmmmmmm.

WepBalance Pulse Carbine Pri: 120
WepBalance Minigun Pri: 100
WepBalance Minigun Sec: 60

Bio-Rifle

The issue here is that the primary is impossible to hit, and thus the 35 average base damage (not sure where in that range it lies) is useless because the effective DPS is somewhere in the lines of "fuck all". Add to that that it's a projectile attack affected by gravity and there's a clear need for some kind of buff here.

Suggestion: Begin tweaking by increasing the velocity of the Bio projectile by 33%.

Link Gun

Same as the above. The projectile has a high damage, and the primary fire a high fire rate, but since it's impossible to hit anyone with the bloody thing there's really nothing to shout about unless you're hitting objectives.

Suggestions:
Increase speed and acceleration by 50%. Reduce damage to Pulse Gun levels (20-25 I believe). Objective damage and vehicle damage is artificially modified to be the same as the standard weapon.

Minigun

At the moment the spread of the Weak Minigun is too wide. Reduce it some. The wide spread is the reason the Minigun primary is a nub weapon - because you're not forced to be on target in the midrange, nor are you rewarded for being on target. An alternative way to nerf the Minigun would be to give the primary fire range attenuation.

Thoughts on this?

[iZumo]

Lovely autoprune pruned a thread about weak mini ._. (disabled it), as far as I recall, week mini spread was increased by 30% (from 0.03 to 0.04) to lower longrange spam efficiency. Weak mini design is however against the noobs; and carries a clear message that this is not the way.

Secondly, unlike in BW, players are used to the weapons as they are now (link PRI for objectives, bio bcoz there ain't better weapon in the map at that place). Don't want really to talk about what should be done for the weapons but I don't think assault players will like changing them. I rather would say adding new weapons, such as Ripjack, would do better.

[Azarael]

The old minigun was a favoured weapon of many Assault players because of the immensely fast time to kill at close range provided you had the aim to pull it off. We changed that regardless. I doubt increasing the variety of the game by giving more viable choices is going to put them off more than effectively removing a choice to stop noobs from abusing it, but we'll see what the rest say. I have never been one for the argument which runs "It's been fucked for ages, but lol we are used to it so leave it as it is" and coming from Bloodline Champions, where there are tournaments in which money rests upon the outcome, players who have been affected by balance changes in such a way that their composition was made weaker before a tournament deal with it as long as the changes are correct and proportional.

[iZumo]

Well no, I didn't want to support that it's fucked for too long. I rather wanter to say that it's not a good idea to change existing weapons without making it clear, such as changing the model (for example use UT2003 model). Because otherwise I'd say people would have a mess about the actual weapons when they play on other servers as well, if the changes are not slight (which they won't as you write).

Now I'm not unsure if you meant the note towards original Minigun or the weakened version. If the latter is the case, we can reduce the damage on long ranges just like in BW and put back the spread.

btw. Link primary DPS is 165, right?

[PALADIN]

Leave the weapons alone, you nabs.
Since last year when minigun was shitted we lost at least 20 good players I can remember.
Continue on that way and you will lost 20 others. Including me.
PS: Thinking about to take Agents server promo on myself and began to move plrs there.

[Socio]

I also dont think that modyfing the base guns is a good idea.
The current Weak Minigun is totally useless for me, so far that I try to remove it from all the maps I make/edit.
I share Izumos concept of modyfing the base guns, instead we could make own versions of them and use old models from UT2003 link gun for a LDG_PulseGun and imply the changes that Aza mentioned to it.

[Meep]

Instagib assault pls

[Azarael]

If the only stipulation is that we modify the weapon models (perhaps using the UC2 ports) then I'm absolutely fine with that.

Can I make it clear that I'm not suggesting nerfs, I'm suggesting buffs. This stuff is useless in combat, whether against vehicles or infantry - the Link Gun has a 33% damage reduction against vehicles and the Bio sucks against them too. I don't see the downside of giving it some kind of use. Even the pro players admit that hitscan is OP in 2k4.

The Link numbers are correct. FireInterval for LinkFire is 0.12.

[iZumo]

If the only stipulation is that we modify the weapon models (perhaps using the UC2 ports) then I'm absolutely fine with that

Yeah for example.

[PALADIN]

I think bio is one of the most usefull weaponry against vehicles. Because it damages the driver and allows you to capture the vehicle.
Also bio is very important in AS because even in primary mode it moves shielded players very far from obj.